Can’t Sleep? It may be impacting your mental health

Yvie: [00:00:00] This podcast is recorded and produced on the land of the Warri people of the Kuan Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who may be listening.

Welcome to another episode of Let’s Talk, a podcast from Butterfly Foundation. I’m your host, Yvie Jones, and today we’re diving into an essential aspect of our wellbeing: sleep. We all know how crucial a good night’s rest is, but what really happens when sleep isn’t right? How does it impact our mental health, physical health, and even our relationship with food and body image?

Joining me today is Dr Sumedha Verma, a sleep psychologist who’s dedicated her career to understanding and supporting holistic, person-centred sleep health. She believes that sleep is not just a biological function, but a systemic issue intertwined with our external environment, social connections, and individual stories.

The thing is, sleep problems are rarely just about the night. Just like eating disorders and body image concerns, they’re often a symptom of deeper distress and require a compassionate, whole-person response. So, Dr Verma, could you please start by telling us: why do we need sleep, and what does “normal” sleep actually look like?

Dr Sumedha Verma: Sleep is vital to our wellbeing. Every single aspect of our health and wellbeing is related to sleep. One of the biggest things is mental health, and this is something I share with my clients all the time: think about the last time you had a really good night’s sleep, and how you felt in your mind and body the next day. People feel more energised, refreshed, and emotionally regulated. It makes us feel resourced to do what’s important the next day.

But there’s also a big physical component. Our physical health and healing rely on good rest. In the realm of recovery, that’s especially important. We need quality sleep to replenish both body and mind.

Another part is relationships. When we sleep well, it affects how we connect with others. So there are many areas of life that sleep influences, but I often say it comes down to quality of life. When we don’t sleep well, it affects every part of day-to-day functioning — our relationships, our physical health and recovery, our mood, our wellbeing. And the flip side is that when we do support our sleep and learn to rest with ease, the benefits are immense.

Yvie: So that’s “normal” sleep.

Dr Sumedha Verma: I actually have an issue with the word “normal” sleep. Instead, we talk about sleep health. We’re good at defining mental illness, or ill health, but not so good at defining health. Sleep health is personally defined. It’s up to the individual, not a top-down medicalised approach where an “expert” tells you if your sleep is good or bad.

We see this with tracking devices too — people come to me anxious that they’re not sleeping “well enough”, which creates more anxiety and backfires. Sleep health means you’re getting enough sleep for what your body needs, it feels like good quality, you’re generally satisfied with it, and most importantly, it doesn’t impact your daily wellbeing. You can do what’s important to you, feel energised and refreshed, and engage meaningfully in your life.

Yvie: Being tired to me is one of the worst feelings. Many people worry about having a sleep disorder. What does that actually mean, and when should someone seek help?

Dr Sumedha Verma: Sleep is our natural right. Everyone deserves good quality sleep. But social messaging and the pressures of living in a busy world make it harder. We all have an innate ability to sleep well, and external factors can either help or hinder that.

Two in three people in Australia will struggle with sleep. That’s huge — and yet we don’t talk about it enough. We discuss mental health and physical health more openly now, but not sleep health, even though it’s so important for individuals, families, communities, and workplaces.

This shows sleep isn’t just a personal problem — it’s a social one. Fast-paced living, capitalism, stigma, shame, and systemic inequities all play a part. That’s why systemic change is needed, including better education for the public and healthcare professionals. For example, insomnia often gets misdiagnosed as anxiety, and the treatments are very different.

In terms of “disorder”, I find that language problematic. We tend to pathologise sleep, even assign it moral value: good vs bad sleep, good vs bad sleepers. That creates shame and failure, which fuels anxiety and makes things worse. Clinically, a sleep disorder is when difficulties falling asleep, staying asleep, or disruptive sleep experiences impact daily life — your health, wellbeing, and ability to function. It also includes excessive tiredness or sleepiness during the day.

Yvie: And it’s almost like the chicken and the egg — did sleep disturbance cause the anxiety, or did anxiety cause the sleep disturbance?

Dr Sumedha Verma: Exactly. That’s where clinicians step in to help untangle it.

Yvie: So if someone is struggling, what kinds of support or treatments are available?

Dr Sumedha Verma: Great question. The number one evidence-based treatment for insomnia is cognitive behavioural therapy for insomnia, or CBT-I. Not many people know this. It’s what I’m trained to deliver, and I’ve focused much of my PhD and postdoctoral work on making CBT-I more accessible — for new parents, carers, older adults, and people with dementia.

The problem is, only about 1% of people with insomnia in Australia access CBT-I. The reasons include lack of awareness, limited prioritisation in the health system, and insufficient clinician training. That’s why we’re developing training programs for healthcare professionals — to upskill them so more people can access this treatment.

CBT-I is powerful. It helps people understand how sleep works and empowers them to make decisions for themselves. It’s typically delivered by sleep psychologists but can also be accessed online. It’s the number one recommended treatment in both Australian and international guidelines.

Importantly, sleep is highly individual, so treatment must be personalised. General “sleep hygiene” tips, like avoiding screens or alcohol before bed, can help some people, but they’re not enough for many. Personalised approaches get to the root causes — your unique needs and circumstances.

There are other approaches too, like medication or CPAP machines for sleep apnoea. Some complementary therapies exist, but for insomnia, CBT-I remains the gold standard.

Yvie: Wow. It’s like unlocking a secret.

Dr Sumedha Verma: Exactly. And it also impacts mental health. CBT-I has been shown to reduce symptoms of depression and anxiety. It gives people tools, takes away the mystery, and restores a sense of control and hope.

Yvie: And how about the link between sleep and body image or food relationships?

Dr Sumedha Verma: Poor sleep can impact our sense of control, safety, and trust in our body. Over time, that can lead to feelings of failure or unworthiness — similar to the shame that often surrounds body image or eating issues. The rhetoric of “good” and “bad” sleepers doesn’t help either. But the good news is, recovery is possible. There are evidence-based treatments that make a real difference.

Sleep problems don’t just affect individuals — they affect families and communities too. For example, in my PhD we worked with new parents, and improving their sleep had positive flow-on effects for their children and family systems as a whole. Supporting families holistically strengthens communities.

Yvie: That’s so similar to eating disorders — the shame, the out-of-control feeling. You could swap the words and the sentences would still apply.

Dr Sumedha Verma: Absolutely. Symptoms — whether poor sleep or eating disorder behaviours — are signs of deeper distress. The goal isn’t just to fix symptoms but to respond to what they represent, and support deeper healing through connection and quality treatment.

Yvie: So how well are eating disorder clinics equipped to deal with sleep health?

Dr Sumedha Verma: Honestly, sleep health isn’t well integrated in our healthcare system at all. It’s like the missing piece. And it raises important questions: why is sleep so difficult for many groups — women, carers, First Nations communities, culturally diverse people, neurodivergent people? Understanding those inequities is key to improving care and preventing problems in the first place.

Yvie: Can you improve sleep without becoming anxious or perfectionistic about it?

Dr Sumedha Verma: Yes, and that’s a core part of CBT-I — reducing the pressure we place on ourselves to sleep. It’s about reframing sleep as safety and restoration, not something to conquer or master. Sleep is dynamic and personal, and we should reclaim it on our own terms rather than being told what’s “right” or “wrong”.

Yvie: What would you personally recommend for improved sleep and recovery?

Dr Sumedha Verma: First, pay attention to your wellbeing and that of your loved ones. Notice when things aren’t going well — and celebrate when they are. Reach out for support: your GP, a sleep psychologist, trusted family or friends. Sleep is part of recovery, and recovery itself is personally defined.

It’s about understanding the links between mind, body, and rest, and building a sense of trust in your own rhythm and needs.

Yvie: And for someone dealing with both sleep issues and eating or body image concerns?

Dr Sumedha Verma: It’s all connected — day and night, body and mind. Recovery is holistic, not outcome-focused. Sleep is part of that bigger picture, alongside mental, physical, and sometimes spiritual wellbeing. Poor sleep could be a sign of something deeper, and it deserves support from trusted professionals.

Recovery is about building deeper connections with yourself, your body, your culture, and your community. Sleep plays a key role in that.

Yvie: We’ve really only scratched the surface here, but this has been such a valuable conversation. Thank you, Dr Verma, for your time.

Dr Sumedha Verma: Thank you, Yvie. I’m honoured to be here, and I hope this conversation helps people feel more empowered about their sleep and overall health.