Why are we red-flagging men and their fitness goals?

Alex Rodriguez: [00:00:00] Our worth as men, or our worth as human beings, is not determined by what we look like, nor how we eat, nor how good we are at exercise. Our worth is inherent within ourselves, and who we are as people, the way we want people to remember us, what important people in our lives appreciate us for. has nothing to do with the way we look or what our macros are or the diet we’re on or how many times we exercise a week.

These things are in many ways hobbies and in other ways parts of being a healthy person but they do not determine our worth or our entire health.

Sam Ikin: The myth that eating disorders only affect women means there are still lots of men who are affected who we don’t know about. [00:01:00] There’s been a growing awareness of body acceptance for women. Now, the situation is far from fixed, but people are rejecting the notion that larger or older bodies or bodies that don’t fit a particular ideal are somehow flawed. There’s a body positivity movement, which mostly encourages women to embrace the body that they currently have, the way that it is. There’s far less of a body diversity movement for men, and impossible ideals are still as strong as ever.
Traditionally, Men were objectified far less than women, but that pressure has almost evened out. Men are far more likely to overexercise, abuse muscle building substances, and engage in restrictive or unsustainable diets in the hope that it can make them tall, muscular, and lean. These destructive behaviors are still admired despite the risk of mental health issues, eating disorders, and physical health problems. Alex Rodriguez, or A Rod as he’s known on social media, has been [00:02:00] through hell and back before recovering from an eating disorder. These days he works as an eating disorder dietician.

Alex Rodriguez: I always have to reflect about where to start, but I like to go back and start just in childhood and touch on that I’ve always been a very anxious, obsessive person and I’ve always lived with fairly low self esteem or low self confidence, something I’m still working on to this day.

As a young child, I was very fortunate to have parents who loved and still love me very much and would give the world for me. But going through a divorce themselves when I was in the middle of primary school, alongside experiencing some bullying at that time, the whole world just felt, very unstable and unsafe in many different ways for me.
And as a 10 to 11 year old at that time, I turned inwards and thought, what can I control? What can I do to feel safe in this world? And on reflection, that was food and exercise and changing my body.

I was [00:03:00] very lucky to be, popped in contact with an amazing eating disorder dietitian at that time who, got me physically back on track and helped me move forward for the next few years.
However, in high school, coming up to a very key, tricky developmental period, with adolescents being brutal, with trying to figure out who you are, with social groups forming, social status forming, sexual attraction forming, so many more things, I started experiencing more bullying and I always felt a little bit on the outside of social groups, didn’t quite know where I fit in, but something which people would positively reinforce or externally validate and give it attention and acceptance towards me for was being fit and athletic and eating quote unquote healthily.

So at the time I, again, to feel safe, to feel accepted, to feel noticed. With that obsession that I spoke about earlier, I clung to these ideals and over the next six to eight months or so, my [00:04:00] exercise and my restrictive eating spiraled out of control. where I developed what was diagnosed as anorexia nervosa, where I was very physically and mentally and socially unwell.
And I had to be admitted to hospital. And I always, always like to touch on here that even though I required a hospital experience, and this was one of the biggest turning points for me to realize how severe things had gotten, and that I did need help. I always like to mention that No matter how severe someone’s eating disorder is, how life threatening, it is always serious, no matter what. But for me, it took being admitted to hospital to accept that I might have a problem here and I need to hand control over to someone else. And then throughout the rest of my high school journey and early university journey, in very brief summary, it was a progressive, challenging, tumultuous, rewarding, and fulfilling experience. Learning who I was. learning the deeper roots of my eating disorder and other mental health experiences that still needed addressing and what I really wanted out of my life and what my key values and purposes were. And other than experiencing a few years where I was obsessed with bodybuilding and fitness culture needing to look muscular, I nowadays can say that I’m probably in the most recovered space I ever have been within and I’m grateful to be living in a body that I can accept now and in the most free relationship with food and exercise I’ve ever had before and it’s so rewarding to be doing anything I can to, like I said before, normalize these experiences and get people talking about them more and people learning to listen to these experiences more.
Sam Ikin: Wow. That’s well, I’m so glad that you found yourself. in such a happy place. That sounds like you’ve been through hell and back though. But so as a man, what external pressures did you experience in relation to your body that kind of [00:06:00] pushed you towards where you ended up in that bad place?
Alex Rodriguez: So in the, in my experience, when I was living with an eating disorder, and even nowadays, things that I still see every single day, In movies, on social media especially, in, in other forms of media, advertising, fashion industry, the list goes on.
The I quote unquote inverted commas ideal body for a man is promoted as being tall, Muscly, lean, with strong muscle definition, broad shoulders, V taper, tans. These are some really key examples. And for me personally, when I was going through my own experience and for lots of men who I’ve spoken to and helped in clinic, we feel that in order to be noticed and accepted and praised, considered attractive, considered worthwhile and successful, more descriptions can go on, that we need to look like this.
And these [00:07:00] body ideals are normally equated with, not by everyone, but stereotypically equated with health. And when people aren’t as educated in health yet, like I had been for many years until nowadays, and especially with people who, you may not have a strong connection to their identity and may be living with things like low self esteem.
If we are essentially taught that we need to look these ways in order to be considered attractive and worthwhile and successful, confident, the list goes on, that we’ll do anything that’s required to try and look like this. And again, the behaviors and the patterns of lifestyles required to look like this are often equated with health when really, a lot of the time, these things can become quite disordered because a healthy body doesn’t need to have high levels of muscle mass or be very low in body fat, however, we’re really sold these messages that we should be looking like this.
We have a responsibility to be looking like this.
Sam Ikin: [00:08:00] We hear a lot about how pressures from social media and from society in general impact women. We do see, we are seeing a movement towards body positivity, but at the same time, we don’t tend to see a movement for men at all. What ways do you think these pressures are impacting on men at the moment?
very much. It
Alex Rodriguez: is so wonderful to see more body diversity being represented for women in the media and beyond. But for men and for across the broader gender spectrum, there isn’t as much diversity being, being promoted. And I think it is quite slow to catch up. I hope in the next five, 10, 15 years, it’s a different story.
And so while the diversity of bodies are being promoted as being worthwhile and attractive, et cetera, but we’re only still being shown a certain body you. type for men than that. And then alongside that, if we stereotypically and especially in [00:09:00] our society, nowadays are fed messages that we need to be strong to me to suck up our emotions.
We need to suppress how we feel. We need to be stoic. We need to persist. We need to be grueling. All of these things which tell men that we need to be the ones that push through struggle and being vulnerable is a weakness. Thanks. If we’re fed these messages in society and we feel like we can’t speak about our mental health difficulties, and at the same time we’re being fed these messages that we should be looking a certain way, then these two things combined, it ends up in a space where we feel stuck and we feel like we don’t have an option.
And I think that It is quite a perfect storm for us to suppress how difficult and how distorted things can become to try and meet these body ideals for lots of people, especially at the same time within that storm, if we can’t express that we’re feeling inadequate in our bodies or inadequate in our lives or.
Like we don’t really have many things to [00:10:00] help ourselves feel confident about ourselves. So I think that there’s lots that needs to happen from more body diversity being displayed for men or people identifying as men, as well as alongside this, there being continuous, perhaps even more prominent normalization of men.
experiencing mental health difficulties and wanting to be vulnerable and wanting help with struggles in their life like low self esteem.
Sam Ikin: It’s, it’s an interesting kind of situation we’re in as men in that we do want to be investing in good health and looking after ourselves. I like to see myself as a body image advocate.
If they’re happy in the body that they’re in, then great. I’m a hundred percent behind you. But if you do one of these people who wants to look after yourself, what’s the line in between doing that and observing things that can make us feel healthier and better and stronger and getting to a point where it can be disordered.[00:11:00]
Alex Rodriguez: It’s such a awesome question, Sam. And that line that you speak about, I like to, as a black and white thinker looking at things in binaries, I like to pull that line away and think of the line as a spectrum. Instead of as binaries, instead of as categories and that spectrum can exist for all the way from what we call quote unquote healthy eating healthy body image through to the other side of the spectrum is a clinically diagnosed eating disorder, right?
But there’s all of this space in between and the first place that I like to start, which I learned on my recovery journey, I’ve learned through studies and helping people nowadays is the reason behind why. Reasons behind why we are wanting to invest in our nutrition or change our eating behaviors or start adopting some form of movement and exercise.
These are just some examples. Why do we want to do these things? There’s often heaps of reasons and there’s often things that cross over and merge together, right? But if someone [00:12:00] is purely wanting to change the way they and or exercise based on trying to change their bodies in line with body ideals for society, then that raises into question, is there some more inner work that might be more worthwhile doing for our health?
In particular, our mental health. Rather than falling into the trap of the dieting industry, for example, which many people unfortunately and unfairly get stuck in for many years, right? That’s one of the first places I like to start. And then secondly, it’s also about how extreme are these measures that we’re doing?
Are we, again, falling into the trap of restrictive diets? being promoted by people without formal qualifications in health, nutrition, exercise, etc. Or are we really connecting with core goals of ours for healthy reasons and taking one step at a time and being compassionate towards ourselves in regards to the food and nutrition behaviors that are in line with our values and appropriate for our current [00:13:00] situation in life.
With exercise, are we again feeling pressured to jump on the latest challenge or be extremely disciplined and diligent to try and meet those external pressures that we’re having? Again, to try and change our bodies in line with how we feel like we should look? Or are we actually trying to adopt forms of movement which do bring us joy?
Which do help us have fun, which do help us connect with other areas of our life as well. And last but not least, when it comes to health in wellness culture, fitzbo culture, it’s always so narrowed down to the way someone looks or how restrictively someone eats. Why don’t we look at health as something which is, yes, absolutely related to movement and eating a balanced diet.
diet, which incorporates all the different food groups. But we also want to consider things like how connected are we to our friends, to our culture, to our family? How do we feel within ourselves and about ourselves? How is our mental health and our psychology? How is our financial health? Are we funneling everything [00:14:00] into, um, supplements and programs, right?
In summary, it’s the reasons behind why we are making these changes, And are we taking care of all elements of our health or are we just trying to eat restrictively and change our bodies?
Sam Ikin: So look, I want to bring in your work as a dietician now before we go further. What was it that inspired you to get involved?
in dietetics and what is it that keeps you going?
Alex Rodriguez: I’ve always wanted to help people and I feel like most health professionals say that. So it sounds pretty cliche, but I’ve genuinely always wanted to help people. I’ve always, Genuinely gotten so much joy and fulfillment from sitting down with someone and connecting with them and Feeling they can say whatever they want to say and be themselves fascination with the human body as well since I was a young kid and the way people think feel and behave and Responds to social settings always been fascinating But I developed such a keen interest in food as a kid and [00:15:00] as a teenager, too and I That’s in part, um, from my Latin American culture on my dad’s side and how much emphasis was on food and fresh produce there, as well as both of my grandparents, grandmothers specifically, showing me how to cook from a young age and getting me involved in the kitchen to help them.
So I did develop a keen interest in food, but On reflection, being completely transparent and vulnerable, I still was obsessed with nutrition and still did eat in a fairly distorted manner when I was going into university back years ago now when I was 7, 8, 10 years old and part of my motive or obsession to study dietetics was probably still from this place of being obsessed with food and being obsessed with how it impacts bodies and body composition.
And it’s actually quite common amongst nutrition and dietetic students. There’s a strong correlation or causation correlation between students studying nutrition and experiencing disordered eating and [00:16:00] eating disorders. And some of this space that is evolving very strongly, it’s a bit of a chicken and the egg rather than chicken or the egg scenario in terms of when and how these, these disordered eating behaviors develop.
But essentially, I’ve always wanted to help people, even now being in a recovered space, I still am interested in and passionate about nutrition. But, moving on from here, I guess my main core passion now is helping people recover from eating disorders and disordered eating, and more broadly, recover from the diet culture.
and negative body image and say that they can eat a healthy, nutritious, balanced diet and enjoy everything that comes with that, but in ways that are completely different to what is taught to us by diet culture. That’s the main reason which keeps me passionate as being a dietitian in that niche or that area.
Sam Ikin: Interesting thing you just said then that a lot of people who are drawn to dietetics have their own struggles with disordered eating. Do you [00:17:00] think that, do you think that extends into personal training or the fitness and diet industry, not dietetics, but diet industry. I feel like a lot of the people that I’ve had contact with who are from that industry, who are not necessarily in touch with eating disorders, perhaps have got some issues of their own.
Alex Rodriguez: That’s very likely. If we think about it, if you are living with Eating, an eating disorder or disordered eating and or body image concerns. These things become our world. They take over our minds. They really lead our lives and they really become our entire, I shouldn’t say entire world, but they become much of our world.
So if that’s all we can think about and that’s the main locus of control over our lives. then very likely it makes sense that it’s going to drive us into a working or career space, which is revolves around food or revolves around exercise or manipulating body composition or dieting products, et [00:18:00] cetera.
Sam Ikin: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Another thing you said before that I wanted to just check on what was Fitzbo. What was that? What, what does that mean?
Alex Rodriguez: Yeah. Thank you for, I think for raising that. It’s essentially a preoccupation with exercise Having high levels of, quote unquote, athletic fitness and, again, working towards body ideals.
Regardless of where we are on the gender spectrum, working towards body ideals that we often associate with gym culture or wellness culture or that we normally see in active wear or supplement models promoting.
Sam Ikin: And, and now, as a dietitian, what are some of the examples of men, uh, That you’ve spoken to. I have seen
Alex Rodriguez: a fair few men in clinic over the past few years.
And we mainly think about or see, again in line with some of the things we’ve been talking about, restrictive diets, so cutting out food groups or significantly limiting food groups, certain foods, macronutrients, obsessively [00:19:00] tracking macronutrients, in order To try and meet or work towards body ideals for a man.
So very often we hear men saying that they want to be more muscular. They want to be leaner, they want to have abs, they want to be able to run or be athletic in a certain domain, but also look like X, Y, Z models on TikTok and Instagram. These are the main things which often come up and, you know, We often see men who have very extreme exercise routines, very restrictive and or obsessive diets or ways of eating.
And these things often close them off from lots of other things in their life. For example, they’re feeling lonely or isolated from their friendship group. For example, they’re having relationship difficulties or they haven’t been in a relationship for a very long time. They’re fighting with their family or with their They’re finding it hard to concentrate at work.
These are just some main examples which often come up but [00:20:00] it really boils down to the level of obsession with exercise and food and their bodies is becoming their entire world and their worth or their sense of themselves is purely tied with them needing to look a certain way or eat a certain way and it shuts them off from the rest of their life and who they actually are as a person.
Sam Ikin: And so what is it that brings them through your door?
Alex Rodriguez: They have either been recommended by another health professional, such as a doctor or a psychologist, or probably more often encouraged to come forwards by a family member or a loved one, or even a friend. That’s probably one of the most common things which brings them through the door.
Otherwise, which is so rewarding and wonderful to see is that they have in confidence and in private step forwards and become vulnerable because they often, because they recognize that, Hey, this started out as something with me trying to better myself, but I’ve realized it’s actually caused more problems for me.
And it’s actually brought [00:21:00] up a lot of stuff about me feeling gross within myself as a person. That’s one thing. And another thing as well is sometimes they come forward to a dietitian thinking that we’re going to validate or reinforce or encourage them to be even more restrictive or diligent with these things to try and take them towards this sense of what they think their goals are.
And that’s a very tricky conversation where we help someone to say that the way they’re going about things can actually be quite dangerous. Or sometimes, unfortunately, it’s a matter of, it may not be the right time for them. And they, Um, it’s still very early on in their body image and eating journey.
And it’s more of a fact that they may need to recognize some things for themselves. And when they feel more ready to change, then that’s when we will hopefully see them step back into that space of vulnerability as well. That’s a big, been a big learning curve of mine to reflect on my own journey. Um, of when I have felt more or less ready to change or reflect and introspect within myself, as well as through a theory and learning that people need to, um, [00:22:00] be ready to recognize that they may have a problem and ready to start making changes in line with a healthy relationship with food.
Sam Ikin: Yeah. Look, we’ve got to the point here now where I need to ask you for some free advice. And so what, as a dietician, who’s got a lived experience, what advice do you have for men about the prevailing body ideals and how to just safely negotiate all of this garbage that we constantly bombarded with?
Alex Rodriguez: That’s an awesome question. The first thing I want to say to that, because there’s so much I want to say to that, you’re probably going to have to shut me up, is that wanting to be healthier, wanting to set an exercise goal, wanting to build more muscle or more strength or be able to run x distance. These things are not inherently unhealthy.
Right? These things aren’t [00:23:00] inherently unhealthy. They can be very healthy parts of someone’s life. However, our worth as men, or our worth as human beings, is not determined by what we look like, nor how we eat, nor how good we are at insert name exercise. Right? Our worth is inherent within ourselves and who we are as people, the way we want people to remember us, what important people in our lives appreciate us for has nothing to do with the way we look or what our macros are or the diet we’re on, or how many times we exercise a week.
These things are in many ways hobbies and in other ways, parts of being a healthy person, but they do not determine our worth or our entire health. That’s the first thing I’d like to mention and the second thing I’d like to mention as well as an extension to that is it’s okay to want to have a look at our diet or our lifestyle or to [00:24:00] want to move more, but again, like I was saying, anything restrictive, anything which is more focused on shutting things down in our life or making things smaller or lesser in our to try and commit everything to a certain way of living is probably more likely to end up disordered or causing more problems for us than good.
I encourage us to look for ways, which look, I hate the word sometimes, but a more holistic perspective on health, which looks at our nutrition and our movement, but also our mental health and also our social connections, our financial health ways of living, which appreciates all domains of health and wellbeing.
rather than ways which only look at how we’re eating and how we’re exercising.
Sam Ikin: Awesome. Look, I reckon that’s a pretty good place for us to wrap it up. But before we go, I just, I know we could have spoken for ages. Is there anything that we haven’t covered that you want to, that you’d like to bring up or if there’s any other nutrition advice or [00:25:00] anything like that you, you think men should know about or people who have men in their life who might like to pass it on?
Alex Rodriguez: Yeah, absolutely. I think that the main thing I’d like to say, just in the context of mental health is that there’s a long way to go in this world, in our society. However, there are shifts now, which is recognizing that vulnerability in everyone, but in this context, vulnerability in men is a strength and coming forwards and sharing something you’re finding challenging with other important people in your life, you feel safe with is a strength.
And that talking about this stuff helps. That’s the main thing I’d like to
Sam Ikin: say. Awesome. Look, that’s a pretty good place for us to wrap it up, Alex. Thank you so much for your time. Where can people find out more about you?
Alex Rodriguez: Yeah, so I’m mainly on, on Instagram. On, and my handle is AROD, so A R O [00:26:00] D underscore dietician.
That’s the main place where I try and post something educational a couple of times a week. And I’m working at the moment for Eating Disorders Queensland as a dietitian and as a lived experience worker. Those are the main two places. You’re always welcome to chuck me a message. I will do my best to get back to you.
Sorry if I’m slow.
Sam Ikin: No worries. A Rod dietitian. Not to be confused with A Rod baseball player, completely different guy.
Alex Rodriguez: My dad’s a, my dad’s a Yankees fan, so we have a conspiracy theory that he named me Alex deliberately. That’s great. Thanks, Alex. Thank you, Sam. Thanks so much.
Sam Ikin: If you’re wondering how you could find a dietician who’s as in touch with body image issues and disordered eating as Alex is, conveniently, Butterfly have done all the work for you.
They have a wonderful referral database on the website. To access it, go to butterfly. org. au. If you need support or you have any questions about eating disorders or body image concerns, the butterfly helpline is 1 800 ED [00:27:00] HOPE. That’s 1800 33 46 73. It’s open seven days a week from 8am until midnight. And if you prefer to chat online, go to butterfly.
org. au and then follow the prompts. I’d like to give a big, massive shout out to Warratah Education Foundation for their ongoing support for this podcast. This show is produced by Ikin Media for Butterfly Foundation. Our executive producer is Camilla Beckett, with support from Kate Mulray and Melissa Wilton.
And if you would like to support us, the best thing you can do is to leave us a rating or a review wherever you’re listening to this podcast. And that’s goodbye from me. I’m Sam Ikin. Take care.